1 00:00:14,820 --> 00:00:11,789 on this episode of skeptic Oh Alex talks 2 00:00:18,089 --> 00:00:14,830 with dr. rd6 killer Clark about her new 3 00:00:20,040 --> 00:00:18,099 book encounters with star people I think 4 00:00:23,609 --> 00:00:20,050 we assumed whether this is true or not 5 00:00:27,830 --> 00:00:23,619 that in American Indian cultures there's 6 00:00:31,499 --> 00:00:27,840 a different set of Givens at orientation 7 00:00:34,530 --> 00:00:31,509 regarding the spirit world well I think 8 00:00:37,229 --> 00:00:34,540 again you have two separate tribes there 9 00:00:40,560 --> 00:00:37,239 sometimes that is forbidden to even 10 00:00:43,110 --> 00:00:40,570 speak the name of a dead person where in 11 00:00:45,150 --> 00:00:43,120 other tribes they believe that when 12 00:00:47,549 --> 00:00:45,160 someone dies they stay with them for a 13 00:00:50,880 --> 00:00:47,559 year there's their remains with them for 14 00:00:53,040 --> 00:00:50,890 a year so it's difficult for me to say 15 00:00:56,099 --> 00:00:53,050 that is a general rule that it has a 16 00:00:58,529 --> 00:00:56,109 spiritual connection but definitely it 17 00:01:00,180 --> 00:00:58,539 does with some of the tribes I think 18 00:01:02,639 --> 00:01:00,190 that worldview puts you in a completely 19 00:01:04,920 --> 00:01:02,649 different place in terms of dealing with 20 00:01:08,219 --> 00:01:04,930 the UFO phenomena oh I do too because 21 00:01:11,460 --> 00:01:08,229 Native people on a whole are accepting 22 00:01:14,850 --> 00:01:11,470 of it they aren't skeptical of it so if 23 00:01:18,660 --> 00:01:14,860 you poach it from a perspective that it 24 00:01:22,230 --> 00:01:18,670 is a part of the universe and then it's 25 00:01:24,810 --> 00:01:22,240 nothing to fear then that's one view but 26 00:01:26,700 --> 00:01:24,820 to be skeptical of it and not believe 27 00:01:28,429 --> 00:01:26,710 what you're seeing or deny that it 28 00:01:29,690 --> 00:01:28,439 occurs it is a totally different 29 00:01:45,230 --> 00:01:29,700 worldview 30 00:01:49,320 --> 00:01:47,610 welcome to skeptical where we explore 31 00:01:52,020 --> 00:01:49,330 controversial science with leading 32 00:01:54,330 --> 00:01:52,030 researchers thinkers and their critics 33 00:01:56,100 --> 00:01:54,340 I'm your host Alex Karras and on this 34 00:01:58,740 --> 00:01:56,110 episode of skeptic oh we're going to 35 00:02:00,780 --> 00:01:58,750 talk about the et phenomena you know I 36 00:02:03,600 --> 00:02:00,790 mentioned in the last show that this is 37 00:02:06,180 --> 00:02:03,610 an area that I see myself being drawn to 38 00:02:07,530 --> 00:02:06,190 more and more and as I look back you 39 00:02:10,859 --> 00:02:07,540 know I'm really surprised at how 40 00:02:13,410 --> 00:02:10,869 resistant I've been to exploring this 41 00:02:15,750 --> 00:02:13,420 topic more fully and even though I've 42 00:02:17,850 --> 00:02:15,760 been interested in UFOs and some of the 43 00:02:20,130 --> 00:02:17,860 more important cases that provide 44 00:02:23,280 --> 00:02:20,140 overwhelming evidence that something is 45 00:02:25,620 --> 00:02:23,290 going on I've been reluctant to go all 46 00:02:29,400 --> 00:02:25,630 the way and explore the full 47 00:02:32,760 --> 00:02:29,410 ramifications of contact but now I think 48 00:02:35,310 --> 00:02:32,770 I am ready to overcome that reluctance 49 00:02:37,620 --> 00:02:35,320 and jump into this field and try and 50 00:02:40,170 --> 00:02:37,630 figure out what's going on 51 00:02:42,810 --> 00:02:40,180 so today's interview with dr. Artie 52 00:02:45,690 --> 00:02:42,820 Clark sets the groundwork if you will 53 00:02:49,259 --> 00:02:45,700 for deeper exploration of the full 54 00:02:52,370 --> 00:02:49,269 implications of this contact that seems 55 00:02:55,800 --> 00:02:52,380 to be going on with these other beings 56 00:02:59,009 --> 00:02:55,810 here's my dialogue with dr. rd6 killer 57 00:03:01,110 --> 00:02:59,019 Clark today we welcome author and 58 00:03:04,590 --> 00:03:01,120 professor emeritus from Montana State 59 00:03:07,290 --> 00:03:04,600 University dr. Rd six-color Clark - 60 00:03:09,930 --> 00:03:07,300 skeptic Oh dr. Clark has a long 61 00:03:12,750 --> 00:03:09,940 distinguished academic career working 62 00:03:15,620 --> 00:03:12,760 with indigenous populations and is here 63 00:03:19,140 --> 00:03:15,630 to talk about her fascinating new book 64 00:03:20,940 --> 00:03:19,150 encounters with star people dr. Clark 65 00:03:25,259 --> 00:03:20,950 welcome to skeptic oh thanks so much for 66 00:03:27,720 --> 00:03:25,269 joining me dr. Clark start out tell us 67 00:03:30,090 --> 00:03:27,730 about your book obviously how you came 68 00:03:33,660 --> 00:03:30,100 to write it maybe a little bit about the 69 00:03:36,690 --> 00:03:33,670 methodology you used you've worked for a 70 00:03:38,789 --> 00:03:36,700 long time with Native Americans and are 71 00:03:40,830 --> 00:03:38,799 familiar with some of the cultural 72 00:03:44,250 --> 00:03:40,840 aspects of that but how did you come to 73 00:03:47,640 --> 00:03:44,260 write this book well when I first came 74 00:03:49,680 --> 00:03:47,650 to Montana State University one of my 75 00:03:51,150 --> 00:03:49,690 roles in in addition to teaching was I 76 00:03:53,699 --> 00:03:51,160 was a director the center for bilingual 77 00:03:57,479 --> 00:03:53,709 multicultural education 78 00:04:00,240 --> 00:03:57,489 and what the sinner did was I would 79 00:04:04,229 --> 00:04:00,250 write grants through the center to 80 00:04:05,850 --> 00:04:04,239 recruit Native students to come to 81 00:04:07,350 --> 00:04:05,860 Montana State University to become 82 00:04:08,509 --> 00:04:07,360 teachers and principals and 83 00:04:10,770 --> 00:04:08,519 superintendents 84 00:04:14,280 --> 00:04:10,780 and I had gone out to one of the 85 00:04:16,499 --> 00:04:14,290 reservations in Montana and and had met 86 00:04:19,920 --> 00:04:16,509 with a group of students and the person 87 00:04:22,499 --> 00:04:19,930 who helped me out on site invited me out 88 00:04:27,300 --> 00:04:22,509 to dinner and after dinner he said to me 89 00:04:30,750 --> 00:04:27,310 said do you have some time I want to 90 00:04:33,180 --> 00:04:30,760 show you something I said sure and he 91 00:04:35,969 --> 00:04:33,190 took up in the mountains above his 92 00:04:37,260 --> 00:04:35,979 village and he parked his car and he 93 00:04:39,900 --> 00:04:37,270 reached over and he got a pair of 94 00:04:43,379 --> 00:04:39,910 binoculars and he said to me come if 95 00:04:45,270 --> 00:04:43,389 we're if we're lucky they'll come and I 96 00:04:49,439 --> 00:04:45,280 said who were coming he said well the 97 00:04:51,480 --> 00:04:49,449 ancestors and so he sat on this boulder 98 00:04:53,999 --> 00:04:51,490 and we watched the night sky and he told 99 00:04:56,610 --> 00:04:54,009 me stories about things that had 100 00:05:01,140 --> 00:04:56,620 happened into him in his life of his 101 00:05:02,820 --> 00:05:01,150 interaction with star people well I had 102 00:05:07,110 --> 00:05:02,830 heard these stories when I was a little 103 00:05:09,600 --> 00:05:07,120 girl as well and so when I when I left 104 00:05:11,640 --> 00:05:09,610 the reservation that night all the way 105 00:05:14,939 --> 00:05:11,650 back to the University I was thinking 106 00:05:17,730 --> 00:05:14,949 about I've heard these stories he heard 107 00:05:21,990 --> 00:05:17,740 these stories how many other Native 108 00:05:25,290 --> 00:05:22,000 people have heard stories from and and 109 00:05:27,659 --> 00:05:25,300 has stories to tell so I traveled a 110 00:05:30,659 --> 00:05:27,669 great deal both going to conferences and 111 00:05:34,860 --> 00:05:30,669 and speaking at conferences and 112 00:05:40,050 --> 00:05:34,870 conventions and and also going out to do 113 00:05:42,570 --> 00:05:40,060 research and and to recruit and so what 114 00:05:44,850 --> 00:05:42,580 I did is I started just putting out 115 00:05:46,529 --> 00:05:44,860 feelers and you know if I went out to 116 00:05:49,620 --> 00:05:46,539 dinner with people in the evening I'd 117 00:05:53,659 --> 00:05:49,630 say do it have you star stories if any 118 00:05:56,490 --> 00:05:53,669 of you ever had experiences with with a 119 00:05:58,640 --> 00:05:56,500 star people or have you seen UFOs or 120 00:06:02,339 --> 00:05:58,650 anything like that so I began collecting 121 00:06:03,970 --> 00:06:02,349 stories and over the time almost 122 00:06:08,440 --> 00:06:03,980 collected 123 00:06:13,300 --> 00:06:08,450 a thousand stories in in a 20-year 124 00:06:16,420 --> 00:06:13,310 period and they ranged from stories 125 00:06:19,630 --> 00:06:16,430 among native Native Americans in the in 126 00:06:23,350 --> 00:06:19,640 the United States and a 148 States in 127 00:06:26,770 --> 00:06:23,360 Alaska because I grew to ye with a South 128 00:06:28,540 --> 00:06:26,780 Pacific group because many of their 129 00:06:31,530 --> 00:06:28,550 stories were very similar to what I was 130 00:06:34,750 --> 00:06:31,540 finding throughout the South Pacific 131 00:06:40,990 --> 00:06:34,760 including Australia New Zealand and then 132 00:06:46,930 --> 00:06:41,000 I had I focused on the Maya in Guatemala 133 00:06:49,450 --> 00:06:46,940 Honduras and in Mexico so and although I 134 00:06:52,390 --> 00:06:49,460 did did have stories that came from the 135 00:06:53,820 --> 00:06:52,400 zapotec the majority of my stories that 136 00:06:57,730 --> 00:06:53,830 came from Central America and Mexico 137 00:07:03,340 --> 00:06:57,740 involved the Mayan people so that's how 138 00:07:06,520 --> 00:07:03,350 I got started and that's I had basically 139 00:07:08,830 --> 00:07:06,530 just put the research way at the 140 00:07:11,110 --> 00:07:08,840 University I had other things to do and 141 00:07:14,740 --> 00:07:11,120 this was just my own personal interest 142 00:07:19,210 --> 00:07:14,750 it was done on my own personal time and 143 00:07:23,680 --> 00:07:19,220 so I decided I retired when I retired 144 00:07:28,350 --> 00:07:23,690 from the University I had a an offer to 145 00:07:33,190 --> 00:07:28,360 come out of retirement and to another 146 00:07:34,390 --> 00:07:33,200 reservation a tribe contacted me and 147 00:07:36,580 --> 00:07:34,400 asked me if I would come out of 148 00:07:39,850 --> 00:07:36,590 retirement and do a major project for 149 00:07:42,370 --> 00:07:39,860 them it was a five-year project and and 150 00:07:46,960 --> 00:07:42,380 I had I gone back to Washington DC 151 00:07:49,570 --> 00:07:46,970 because it involved a huge grant and I 152 00:07:53,080 --> 00:07:49,580 got back to DC and been trained on what 153 00:07:54,730 --> 00:07:53,090 they expected need to do and then I went 154 00:07:56,920 --> 00:07:54,740 to the reservation and while I was on 155 00:07:59,500 --> 00:07:56,930 the reservation I had lunch with a group 156 00:08:02,530 --> 00:07:59,510 of women I was still trying to decide 157 00:08:04,810 --> 00:08:02,540 whether I wanted to take this job or not 158 00:08:06,850 --> 00:08:04,820 because five-year commitment is it's a 159 00:08:09,310 --> 00:08:06,860 really long time and involved a lot of 160 00:08:10,549 --> 00:08:09,320 travel and a lot of time spent away from 161 00:08:13,039 --> 00:08:10,559 home 162 00:08:15,619 --> 00:08:13,049 and so as I was having lunch with this 163 00:08:17,809 --> 00:08:15,629 group of women we began to talk I don't 164 00:08:20,149 --> 00:08:17,819 know the subject of fewer folks came up 165 00:08:22,629 --> 00:08:20,159 for some reason and I began to tell them 166 00:08:24,949 --> 00:08:22,639 some of those stories that I collected 167 00:08:28,569 --> 00:08:24,959 and one of them said well what are you 168 00:08:31,159 --> 00:08:28,579 going to do with this and I said well 169 00:08:33,980 --> 00:08:31,169 probably nothing and she said well you 170 00:08:37,489 --> 00:08:33,990 can't do that this is a part of our oral 171 00:08:43,249 --> 00:08:37,499 history you have to put this down so 172 00:08:46,610 --> 00:08:43,259 that people will know and so on our way 173 00:08:48,319 --> 00:08:46,620 back home I got to thinking do I want to 174 00:08:51,199 --> 00:08:48,329 spend the next five years of my life 175 00:08:53,119 --> 00:08:51,209 doing research and evaluation which is 176 00:08:55,790 --> 00:08:53,129 what I've been doing for thirty years at 177 00:08:57,949 --> 00:08:55,800 Montana State University or do I want to 178 00:09:00,049 --> 00:08:57,959 write this book and obviously I chose 179 00:09:02,239 --> 00:09:00,059 the latter I decided to write the book 180 00:09:08,569 --> 00:09:02,249 and not only to write this one but I 181 00:09:11,449 --> 00:09:08,579 hope to do two more one on the Maya and 182 00:09:14,840 --> 00:09:11,459 and the indigenous people of Central 183 00:09:19,309 --> 00:09:14,850 America and Mexico and and one on the 184 00:09:21,350 --> 00:09:19,319 indigenous people of other South Pacific 185 00:09:23,299 --> 00:09:21,360 well fantastic it sounds like you 186 00:09:25,249 --> 00:09:23,309 certainly have a lot of material you 187 00:09:27,710 --> 00:09:25,259 know before we jump too far ahead I 188 00:09:29,030 --> 00:09:27,720 thought the first part of that account 189 00:09:31,369 --> 00:09:29,040 that you just gave was rather 190 00:09:34,160 --> 00:09:31,379 interesting and that's that these 191 00:09:37,790 --> 00:09:34,170 stories immediately resonated with your 192 00:09:39,679 --> 00:09:37,800 own personal history and right again if 193 00:09:43,610 --> 00:09:39,689 we pull that out of the context you know 194 00:09:47,179 --> 00:09:43,620 I don't know that most people in the 195 00:09:51,079 --> 00:09:47,189 United States today or in Europe or in 196 00:09:53,900 --> 00:09:51,089 the Western world would it all relate to 197 00:09:56,269 --> 00:09:53,910 the idea of being connected to the star 198 00:09:58,549 --> 00:09:56,279 people what do you make of that what 199 00:10:01,939 --> 00:09:58,559 what what did that stir up in you I mean 200 00:10:04,579 --> 00:10:01,949 what had you done with that well you 201 00:10:06,290 --> 00:10:04,589 know that was growing up as a child you 202 00:10:08,389 --> 00:10:06,300 know I would my grandmother told me a 203 00:10:11,989 --> 00:10:08,399 story that that the star men came to 204 00:10:15,350 --> 00:10:11,999 earth and that they they lived with a 205 00:10:19,040 --> 00:10:15,360 with the Sun women the Sun women were 206 00:10:21,740 --> 00:10:19,050 the people women of Earth and and that a 207 00:10:22,970 --> 00:10:21,750 time came when the sir men had to leave 208 00:10:25,819 --> 00:10:22,980 the earth 209 00:10:30,470 --> 00:10:25,829 and that the the women of Earth were 210 00:10:32,360 --> 00:10:30,480 very very upset and and so a council was 211 00:10:34,550 --> 00:10:32,370 held and it was decided that those who 212 00:10:36,379 --> 00:10:34,560 wanted to stay could stay behind and 213 00:10:38,689 --> 00:10:36,389 those who wanted to return to the Stars 214 00:10:40,639 --> 00:10:38,699 could return to the stars so my 215 00:10:43,579 --> 00:10:40,649 grandmother would say to me that you are 216 00:10:49,009 --> 00:10:43,589 a descendent of those the star people 217 00:10:52,129 --> 00:10:49,019 and the people of Earth and that all of 218 00:10:55,370 --> 00:10:52,139 us have a special plan for us on this 219 00:10:56,990 --> 00:10:55,380 earth for that reason and so that was 220 00:11:00,500 --> 00:10:57,000 just for me 221 00:11:02,840 --> 00:11:00,510 it was a story that I was told and as I 222 00:11:04,280 --> 00:11:02,850 grew older of course I put those stories 223 00:11:07,460 --> 00:11:04,290 away they were the stories of my 224 00:11:09,590 --> 00:11:07,470 childhood and when I became an adult it 225 00:11:12,889 --> 00:11:09,600 had no impact on my life that I know 226 00:11:14,750 --> 00:11:12,899 until I met this individual who told me 227 00:11:17,420 --> 00:11:14,760 his personal story and of course that 228 00:11:18,050 --> 00:11:17,430 brought back all of these stories of my 229 00:11:20,629 --> 00:11:18,060 childhood 230 00:11:23,120 --> 00:11:20,639 sure and I just think that that kind of 231 00:11:25,730 --> 00:11:23,130 gets at you know something that's right 232 00:11:28,819 --> 00:11:25,740 below the surface of this book because 233 00:11:31,340 --> 00:11:28,829 one of the reasons we get excited about 234 00:11:35,030 --> 00:11:31,350 this book that is to hear the stories 235 00:11:38,180 --> 00:11:35,040 from Native Americans is that we think 236 00:11:41,000 --> 00:11:38,190 as non Native Americans that there's 237 00:11:42,970 --> 00:11:41,010 something different about this culture 238 00:11:45,410 --> 00:11:42,980 something different about their 239 00:11:48,199 --> 00:11:45,420 orientation to the world to their 240 00:11:50,780 --> 00:11:48,209 worldview and maybe that's true maybe 241 00:11:52,460 --> 00:11:50,790 that's not true I'm sure it's both but I 242 00:11:54,410 --> 00:11:52,470 think we have to kind of be careful with 243 00:11:56,480 --> 00:11:54,420 how we unpack that don't we I mean 244 00:11:59,000 --> 00:11:56,490 especially you as someone who spent your 245 00:12:00,920 --> 00:11:59,010 professional academic career kind of in 246 00:12:04,509 --> 00:12:00,930 both worlds at Montana State University 247 00:12:08,180 --> 00:12:04,519 and academia but also in working with 248 00:12:10,519 --> 00:12:08,190 indigenous people how do we how do we 249 00:12:14,750 --> 00:12:10,529 kind of approach that with sensitivity 250 00:12:17,120 --> 00:12:14,760 but also with a desire to to gain the 251 00:12:20,360 --> 00:12:17,130 benefit of the cultural differences as 252 00:12:22,569 --> 00:12:20,370 well the thing that I was always 253 00:12:25,040 --> 00:12:22,579 sensitive to you know first of all I 254 00:12:27,050 --> 00:12:25,050 didn't want to be branded at Montana 255 00:12:30,110 --> 00:12:27,060 State University is some psycho 256 00:12:34,260 --> 00:12:30,120 professor who is out there advocating 257 00:12:38,610 --> 00:12:34,270 you know police in UFOs and but if the 258 00:12:45,420 --> 00:12:38,620 same time in the in the native community 259 00:12:47,430 --> 00:12:45,430 I wanted to be credible and and and I 260 00:12:52,320 --> 00:12:47,440 think that was the key to my success 261 00:12:56,300 --> 00:12:52,330 with Native people is that what I did is 262 00:12:59,400 --> 00:12:56,310 I just put feelers out I didn't go and 263 00:13:01,560 --> 00:12:59,410 attempt to coerce anyone into telling 264 00:13:02,790 --> 00:13:01,570 their stories some of the people as I 265 00:13:04,380 --> 00:13:02,800 revealed in the book I'd known 266 00:13:06,780 --> 00:13:04,390 twenty-five years before they ever told 267 00:13:09,900 --> 00:13:06,790 me their story it was that waiting and 268 00:13:14,310 --> 00:13:09,910 watching and and and even though I was 269 00:13:16,890 --> 00:13:14,320 native myself or part Native there was 270 00:13:21,150 --> 00:13:16,900 that credibility test that I had to pass 271 00:13:23,370 --> 00:13:21,160 before the stories came forth and I hope 272 00:13:27,030 --> 00:13:23,380 that that shows in the book that that 273 00:13:29,430 --> 00:13:27,040 the people who confided in me were 274 00:13:31,980 --> 00:13:29,440 people who trusted me do you have maybe 275 00:13:33,360 --> 00:13:31,990 an example from the book of where that 276 00:13:35,430 --> 00:13:33,370 was the case where someone didn't come 277 00:13:36,900 --> 00:13:35,440 forward for maybe a long time and then 278 00:13:39,990 --> 00:13:36,910 came forward with a pretty amazing story 279 00:13:43,590 --> 00:13:40,000 well I think the the story that Harrison 280 00:13:46,680 --> 00:13:43,600 tells the craft that that crash landed 281 00:13:48,920 --> 00:13:46,690 on his grandfather's ranch in a remote 282 00:13:52,770 --> 00:13:48,930 section of the reservation and the 283 00:13:58,200 --> 00:13:52,780 survivors lived there until they were 284 00:14:00,330 --> 00:13:58,210 rescued sometime later and and he took 285 00:14:03,450 --> 00:14:00,340 me to the ranch he showed me where the 286 00:14:05,940 --> 00:14:03,460 event occurred he told me about how and 287 00:14:08,460 --> 00:14:05,950 he was a boy yet he had boarded the 288 00:14:11,040 --> 00:14:08,470 craft and what he saw and what he felt 289 00:14:12,390 --> 00:14:11,050 his grandfather he wanted to remove 290 00:14:13,950 --> 00:14:12,400 things from the craft and his 291 00:14:16,830 --> 00:14:13,960 grandfather wouldn't allow it because he 292 00:14:20,040 --> 00:14:16,840 was said it was sacred and then having 293 00:14:24,000 --> 00:14:20,050 the Corps of Engineers come in at a 294 00:14:27,060 --> 00:14:24,010 later time and and build a dam which 295 00:14:29,880 --> 00:14:27,070 literally destroyed any evidence of the 296 00:14:32,160 --> 00:14:29,890 other craft and his his grandfather 297 00:14:34,500 --> 00:14:32,170 always believed that as they were 298 00:14:36,420 --> 00:14:34,510 excavating though but the land there 299 00:14:39,360 --> 00:14:36,430 that they had had discovered the craft 300 00:14:43,260 --> 00:14:39,370 and had taken it away now this was back 301 00:14:45,810 --> 00:14:43,270 in the 40s and obviously when I talked 302 00:14:47,940 --> 00:14:45,820 to him about it he said you know there 303 00:14:49,290 --> 00:14:47,950 were very few cars on the reservation 304 00:14:50,940 --> 00:14:49,300 that time he said people would stand 305 00:14:53,220 --> 00:14:50,950 beside the road and just watch this 306 00:14:55,710 --> 00:14:53,230 equipment go by because they were they 307 00:14:58,080 --> 00:14:55,720 were so enthralled and fascinated just 308 00:15:01,680 --> 00:14:58,090 by the by the size of the equipment and 309 00:15:03,510 --> 00:15:01,690 the vehicles that were passing by and so 310 00:15:05,070 --> 00:15:03,520 he said they could removed anything and 311 00:15:07,380 --> 00:15:05,080 his grandfather always felt that that's 312 00:15:10,590 --> 00:15:07,390 what had happened but his grandfather 313 00:15:12,480 --> 00:15:10,600 was also very pleased that he had kept 314 00:15:15,320 --> 00:15:12,490 their secret that he had somehow 315 00:15:20,190 --> 00:15:15,330 protected them from the outside world 316 00:15:23,250 --> 00:15:20,200 and that they had lived there free of 317 00:15:25,740 --> 00:15:23,260 observation and free of detection on his 318 00:15:28,650 --> 00:15:25,750 land and he was the one who had done 319 00:15:32,160 --> 00:15:28,660 that so and I had known Arison for 320 00:15:35,100 --> 00:15:32,170 twenty-five years I had been I had gone 321 00:15:38,280 --> 00:15:35,110 into on to the reservation as a as a 322 00:15:40,830 --> 00:15:38,290 consultant sent there by the University 323 00:15:42,840 --> 00:15:40,840 because the community the school 324 00:15:45,810 --> 00:15:42,850 district in the community was was 325 00:15:47,760 --> 00:15:45,820 attempting to get a bilingual education 326 00:15:50,970 --> 00:15:47,770 grant funded from the federal government 327 00:15:52,500 --> 00:15:50,980 because they had a number of children in 328 00:15:54,090 --> 00:15:52,510 the school district that did not speak 329 00:15:57,000 --> 00:15:54,100 English they spoke only the native 330 00:16:00,570 --> 00:15:57,010 language Tennyson resented that he was a 331 00:16:02,640 --> 00:16:00,580 cultural person and and the one that 332 00:16:04,860 --> 00:16:02,650 everybody turned to so he resented a 333 00:16:08,820 --> 00:16:04,870 university when he considered a 334 00:16:13,020 --> 00:16:08,830 university interference and so it took 335 00:16:15,450 --> 00:16:13,030 time to gain his distrust then over the 336 00:16:18,570 --> 00:16:15,460 years we became close and became friends 337 00:16:20,370 --> 00:16:18,580 but it took him 25 years before he told 338 00:16:23,180 --> 00:16:20,380 me the story and I have no doubt 339 00:16:27,240 --> 00:16:23,190 whatsoever that what he told me was true 340 00:16:29,430 --> 00:16:27,250 well let's let's get to that and I think 341 00:16:32,130 --> 00:16:29,440 that you have a certain credibility 342 00:16:34,200 --> 00:16:32,140 obviously that comes through not only 343 00:16:37,700 --> 00:16:34,210 with the Native American tribes but in 344 00:16:41,040 --> 00:16:37,710 your work a long time highly regarded 345 00:16:42,930 --> 00:16:41,050 academic who is not only familiar with 346 00:16:44,550 --> 00:16:42,940 the university but is working with 347 00:16:47,100 --> 00:16:44,560 government programs and has the 348 00:16:48,810 --> 00:16:47,110 credibility that goes with that but I do 349 00:16:52,140 --> 00:16:48,820 think it's it's interesting in a couple 350 00:16:53,490 --> 00:16:52,150 of ways I mean it sounds like you're the 351 00:16:55,740 --> 00:16:53,500 only person really could have written 352 00:16:58,230 --> 00:16:55,750 this book I mean one it takes a certain 353 00:17:01,160 --> 00:16:58,240 tenacity to stay with this thing for 354 00:17:05,090 --> 00:17:01,170 that long but also the 355 00:17:06,890 --> 00:17:05,100 kind of trust that's required that what 356 00:17:09,409 --> 00:17:06,900 comes through is that these folks who 357 00:17:12,730 --> 00:17:09,419 you collected these stories from don't 358 00:17:16,039 --> 00:17:12,740 fit the normal profile of people who are 359 00:17:17,809 --> 00:17:16,049 putting forth a UFO story either because 360 00:17:20,059 --> 00:17:17,819 it was the most traumatic thing in their 361 00:17:22,579 --> 00:17:20,069 life or because they have some other 362 00:17:26,780 --> 00:17:22,589 kind of ulterior motive it sounds like 363 00:17:27,860 --> 00:17:26,790 that there was a different agenda here 364 00:17:29,030 --> 00:17:27,870 in terms of these people they had 365 00:17:31,100 --> 00:17:29,040 basically a lot of them have 366 00:17:34,400 --> 00:17:31,110 incorporated into their life just fine 367 00:17:37,850 --> 00:17:34,410 and brought it out because you probed 368 00:17:41,360 --> 00:17:37,860 right right I think you know it was a 369 00:17:43,370 --> 00:17:41,370 story that they had that they had shared 370 00:17:45,110 --> 00:17:43,380 perhaps with family and friends someone 371 00:17:49,820 --> 00:17:45,120 and some of them had never told anyone 372 00:17:52,100 --> 00:17:49,830 but I think just my presence and they 373 00:17:57,350 --> 00:17:52,110 don't her stories I never tried to 374 00:17:59,690 --> 00:17:57,360 interject any any personal opinions into 375 00:18:04,480 --> 00:17:59,700 what they were telling me I let them 376 00:18:07,700 --> 00:18:04,490 tell the stories without judgment I'm a 377 00:18:10,580 --> 00:18:07,710 social scientist not a I'm not in the 378 00:18:12,440 --> 00:18:10,590 hard sciences so I wasn't demanding in 379 00:18:14,090 --> 00:18:12,450 terms of well where's your proof where's 380 00:18:16,430 --> 00:18:14,100 your proof you know you got to have some 381 00:18:18,799 --> 00:18:16,440 kind of proof and I wasn't looking for 382 00:18:21,049 --> 00:18:18,809 that I was looking you tell me your 383 00:18:23,180 --> 00:18:21,059 story you tell me what happened and I 384 00:18:25,669 --> 00:18:23,190 will listen you did something that's 385 00:18:28,130 --> 00:18:25,679 much more valuable as you just gathered 386 00:18:30,710 --> 00:18:28,140 a lot of these first-person accounts and 387 00:18:32,630 --> 00:18:30,720 when we really sort through them in sift 388 00:18:34,340 --> 00:18:32,640 through them we can start looking for 389 00:18:36,950 --> 00:18:34,350 the same kind of patterns that let us 390 00:18:39,159 --> 00:18:36,960 know whether they're reliable accounts I 391 00:18:42,500 --> 00:18:39,169 mean I think that's a lot better than 392 00:18:45,680 --> 00:18:42,510 tracking down some ticky-tacky photos or 393 00:18:47,000 --> 00:18:45,690 little remnants that someone has of it I 394 00:18:48,890 --> 00:18:47,010 mean I guess I don't want to say that 395 00:18:51,650 --> 00:18:48,900 because both both can be valuable and 396 00:18:53,780 --> 00:18:51,660 you do have some first-person experience 397 00:18:55,940 --> 00:18:53,790 that you had with trace phenomenon all 398 00:18:58,250 --> 00:18:55,950 the rest of that so all of its big I 399 00:19:01,030 --> 00:18:58,260 think both both approaches are valuable 400 00:19:03,740 --> 00:19:01,040 but I think that hard science often 401 00:19:06,590 --> 00:19:03,750 criticizes social scientists you know 402 00:19:10,610 --> 00:19:06,600 and and I've had some of that you know 403 00:19:14,100 --> 00:19:10,620 but I I didn't set out from the 404 00:19:17,150 --> 00:19:14,110 perspective of trying to 405 00:19:21,000 --> 00:19:17,160 attack or criticize or delve into 406 00:19:22,919 --> 00:19:21,010 motivations or our you know where's your 407 00:19:26,850 --> 00:19:22,929 proof that this happened that kind of 408 00:19:30,299 --> 00:19:26,860 thing I just recorded the stories and I 409 00:19:34,710 --> 00:19:30,309 think because of that I got a some very 410 00:19:36,960 --> 00:19:34,720 honest open accounts of what occurred 411 00:19:38,940 --> 00:19:36,970 and of course one of the things I think 412 00:19:41,460 --> 00:19:38,950 the trust that came along with that is 413 00:19:44,490 --> 00:19:41,470 that the guarantee that I would not 414 00:19:47,430 --> 00:19:44,500 reveal the identity of the individuals 415 00:19:49,049 --> 00:19:47,440 now along the road or down the road is 416 00:19:51,900 --> 00:19:49,059 some one of them wants to come forward 417 00:19:54,380 --> 00:19:51,910 and said hey I'm the person in dr. 418 00:19:57,930 --> 00:19:54,390 Clark's books that's fine but I 419 00:20:00,299 --> 00:19:57,940 committed to anonymity and I intend to 420 00:20:03,120 --> 00:20:00,309 honor that many of the people who 421 00:20:05,460 --> 00:20:03,130 actually told me the stories are you 422 00:20:08,640 --> 00:20:05,470 know have passed now because you know 423 00:20:11,640 --> 00:20:08,650 these stories go back 20 25 years what's 424 00:20:13,260 --> 00:20:11,650 been the reaction from within the Native 425 00:20:16,440 --> 00:20:13,270 American community about the book 426 00:20:20,250 --> 00:20:16,450 nothing I haven't heard anything from 427 00:20:22,140 --> 00:20:20,260 the Native community anything positive 428 00:20:24,870 --> 00:20:22,150 like they didn't want more stories or 429 00:20:26,850 --> 00:20:24,880 negative like you know gee I wish you 430 00:20:29,370 --> 00:20:26,860 wouldn't have brought that out or I 431 00:20:32,700 --> 00:20:29,380 haven't heard anything from any really 432 00:20:36,480 --> 00:20:32,710 nothing from the Native community I've 433 00:20:39,090 --> 00:20:36,490 had a couple emails attacking me because 434 00:20:40,980 --> 00:20:39,100 I used the term American Indians in the 435 00:20:42,960 --> 00:20:40,990 book instead of Native American and 436 00:20:44,430 --> 00:20:42,970 saying you know if you're really a 437 00:20:47,490 --> 00:20:44,440 Native American you wouldn't call 438 00:20:49,110 --> 00:20:47,500 Indians American Indians although the 439 00:20:51,120 --> 00:20:49,120 book in the very front of the book I 440 00:20:53,970 --> 00:20:51,130 explained why use the term American 441 00:20:56,700 --> 00:20:53,980 Indian because you know several years 442 00:20:58,980 --> 00:20:56,710 ago back when I was still in academia 443 00:21:03,030 --> 00:20:58,990 there were a group of us who were Native 444 00:21:04,770 --> 00:21:03,040 researchers who who decided that that we 445 00:21:08,760 --> 00:21:04,780 were no longer going to use the term 446 00:21:11,880 --> 00:21:08,770 Native American in our discussion in 447 00:21:14,669 --> 00:21:11,890 general about Native Americans because 448 00:21:17,000 --> 00:21:14,679 we base it upon the fact that the term 449 00:21:19,590 --> 00:21:17,010 Native American was increasingly being 450 00:21:22,590 --> 00:21:19,600 claimed by those individuals who were 451 00:21:24,870 --> 00:21:22,600 born within the United States regardless 452 00:21:26,669 --> 00:21:24,880 of their ethnicity mm-hmm so when we 453 00:21:26,909 --> 00:21:26,679 would say we're a Native American you 454 00:21:30,239 --> 00:21:26,919 know 455 00:21:32,639 --> 00:21:30,249 somebody who was not of of American 456 00:21:36,570 --> 00:21:32,649 Indian heritage say well I'm a Native 457 00:21:39,869 --> 00:21:36,580 American - I was born I'm six 458 00:21:43,139 --> 00:21:39,879 generations Native American right so so 459 00:21:45,180 --> 00:21:43,149 what we decided to do along with the 460 00:21:47,369 --> 00:21:45,190 award-winning journalist Tim Diego who 461 00:21:49,440 --> 00:21:47,379 was a founder and editor of the Lakota 462 00:21:52,830 --> 00:21:49,450 times and Indian country today and 463 00:21:55,830 --> 00:21:52,840 native son news we decided that even 464 00:21:58,379 --> 00:21:55,840 though Indian is a misnomer of course 465 00:22:00,899 --> 00:21:58,389 for generic purposes that we were going 466 00:22:03,450 --> 00:22:00,909 to use the term American Indian because 467 00:22:05,700 --> 00:22:03,460 anybody who really politically correct 468 00:22:09,869 --> 00:22:05,710 thinker who believes Native American is 469 00:22:12,119 --> 00:22:09,879 the preferred identification tag for any 470 00:22:15,720 --> 00:22:12,129 tribe I think is wrong and that we 471 00:22:18,599 --> 00:22:15,730 prefer to be called Lakota or Northern 472 00:22:20,759 --> 00:22:18,609 Cheyenne or you know by our names but if 473 00:22:23,549 --> 00:22:20,769 not you know American Indian is an 474 00:22:26,820 --> 00:22:23,559 acceptable term because of the Native 475 00:22:28,349 --> 00:22:26,830 American the and I think rightfully so 476 00:22:30,960 --> 00:22:28,359 that people who are born here has a 477 00:22:34,379 --> 00:22:30,970 right to consider themselves Native 478 00:22:37,820 --> 00:22:34,389 Americans and so there have been some 479 00:22:41,220 --> 00:22:37,830 summit some attacks along that way 480 00:22:42,840 --> 00:22:41,230 toward me but obviously the people who 481 00:22:45,210 --> 00:22:42,850 attacked me hadn't read the book or at 482 00:22:48,269 --> 00:22:45,220 least not see my explanation of why I 483 00:22:50,789 --> 00:22:48,279 used that term what what's been the 484 00:22:52,830 --> 00:22:50,799 reaction from within the UFO community 485 00:22:54,930 --> 00:22:52,840 if you're talking about the UFO 486 00:22:57,149 --> 00:22:54,940 community of the people who are in power 487 00:22:59,909 --> 00:22:57,159 and the people who are you know that you 488 00:23:04,200 --> 00:22:59,919 see their names at conferences total 489 00:23:08,820 --> 00:23:04,210 silence quickly Stryver has certainly 490 00:23:11,399 --> 00:23:08,830 been positive but I'm not sure he's a 491 00:23:14,009 --> 00:23:11,409 part of that community as such my 492 00:23:16,489 --> 00:23:14,019 readers have been just absolutely I mean 493 00:23:20,009 --> 00:23:16,499 they have been unbelievable the 494 00:23:22,700 --> 00:23:20,019 accolades and and reviews and 495 00:23:25,820 --> 00:23:22,710 and comments and emails I get have been 496 00:23:28,080 --> 00:23:25,830 not one negative ones from any of those 497 00:23:30,659 --> 00:23:28,090 you know where I'd like to go next 498 00:23:32,099 --> 00:23:30,669 because when I say UFO community and 499 00:23:33,720 --> 00:23:32,109 then you know that's a nebulous term 500 00:23:35,789 --> 00:23:33,730 like you just said who's in the UFO 501 00:23:39,629 --> 00:23:35,799 community and all the rest of that but I 502 00:23:40,980 --> 00:23:39,639 I do think that the UFO phenomena the 503 00:23:45,270 --> 00:23:40,990 ETF 504 00:23:47,460 --> 00:23:45,280 is really an important part of what's 505 00:23:49,770 --> 00:23:47,470 evolving as our culture our 506 00:23:52,080 --> 00:23:49,780 understanding of who we are obviously 507 00:23:55,500 --> 00:23:52,090 how we fit into the world what this 508 00:23:57,390 --> 00:23:55,510 thing called consciousness is so what I 509 00:23:59,940 --> 00:23:57,400 thought was kind of interesting about 510 00:24:02,160 --> 00:23:59,950 your book without even this being a 511 00:24:05,910 --> 00:24:02,170 purpose of your book is you kind of 512 00:24:08,010 --> 00:24:05,920 shatter some of the paradigms that are 513 00:24:11,990 --> 00:24:08,020 most prevalent within that UFO community 514 00:24:15,419 --> 00:24:12,000 for example let's start with the whole 515 00:24:18,030 --> 00:24:15,429 origin of the et phenomena there's this 516 00:24:23,190 --> 00:24:18,040 debate you know did did the ETS arrive 517 00:24:25,919 --> 00:24:23,200 in 1947 with the explosion of the 518 00:24:28,350 --> 00:24:25,929 nuclear bomb and then the the crash at 519 00:24:32,430 --> 00:24:28,360 Roswell is this a recent phenomena 520 00:24:35,610 --> 00:24:32,440 what would your accounts you're over 521 00:24:38,430 --> 00:24:35,620 1,000 first-person accounts tell us 522 00:24:41,659 --> 00:24:38,440 about answering that question about the 523 00:24:46,650 --> 00:24:41,669 when question in terms of this phenomena 524 00:24:48,390 --> 00:24:46,660 well I think for a majority of the 525 00:24:51,090 --> 00:24:48,400 people I interviewed their opinion is 526 00:24:53,220 --> 00:24:51,100 they've always been here that is not a 527 00:24:57,419 --> 00:24:53,230 new phenomena that they have been 528 00:25:01,409 --> 00:24:57,429 visiting earth for many many eons one 529 00:25:03,350 --> 00:25:01,419 person said before the beginning of time 530 00:25:05,820 --> 00:25:03,360 when he was selling these four stories 531 00:25:07,530 --> 00:25:05,830 some of the ancient stories he said 532 00:25:10,890 --> 00:25:07,540 these stories go back before the 533 00:25:13,320 --> 00:25:10,900 beginning of time they are the old old 534 00:25:15,990 --> 00:25:13,330 stories and of course I don't clue those 535 00:25:18,720 --> 00:25:16,000 of the book but but what he was saying 536 00:25:21,480 --> 00:25:18,730 to me is that this is nothing new we've 537 00:25:24,539 --> 00:25:21,490 always had interaction with people from 538 00:25:27,480 --> 00:25:24,549 the stars but you also also met other 539 00:25:29,730 --> 00:25:27,490 people from different tribes who had no 540 00:25:33,750 --> 00:25:29,740 connection or no stories that were 541 00:25:36,360 --> 00:25:33,760 related to that so it would appear that 542 00:25:39,330 --> 00:25:36,370 depending upon the tribal groups that 543 00:25:41,100 --> 00:25:39,340 also varied I mean I had the one story 544 00:25:42,539 --> 00:25:41,110 and I don't know if you read this a 545 00:25:44,760 --> 00:25:42,549 young man who told me about his 546 00:25:47,490 --> 00:25:44,770 grandfather who when he was a young man 547 00:25:50,310 --> 00:25:47,500 held there in a lien in the desert and 548 00:25:53,100 --> 00:25:50,320 this was before Roswell I remember this 549 00:25:53,760 --> 00:25:53,110 story can you determine the young man 550 00:25:55,710 --> 00:25:53,770 who told 551 00:25:59,730 --> 00:25:55,720 me about his grandfather that buried the 552 00:26:02,190 --> 00:25:59,740 alien and and along with some other 553 00:26:03,930 --> 00:26:02,200 teenage boys they found him wandering in 554 00:26:06,900 --> 00:26:03,940 the desert and he died and they just 555 00:26:10,050 --> 00:26:06,910 buried him and never told anyone because 556 00:26:13,260 --> 00:26:10,060 they considered that star person to be 557 00:26:16,070 --> 00:26:13,270 you know a messenger from God from from 558 00:26:18,660 --> 00:26:16,080 from the sky gods and so they buried him 559 00:26:21,450 --> 00:26:18,670 it's just that you know a totally 560 00:26:24,540 --> 00:26:21,460 different kind of relationship that 561 00:26:29,040 --> 00:26:24,550 we're talking about here another aspect 562 00:26:30,900 --> 00:26:29,050 of the et UFO phenomena that were 563 00:26:34,020 --> 00:26:30,910 constantly trying to get our arms around 564 00:26:36,060 --> 00:26:34,030 once you cross the chasm and say okay 565 00:26:37,920 --> 00:26:36,070 there is something here that we need to 566 00:26:40,470 --> 00:26:37,930 study and we need to understand but 567 00:26:42,240 --> 00:26:40,480 let's let's jump over there because all 568 00:26:44,640 --> 00:26:42,250 the rest is kind of silly to ignore it 569 00:26:47,880 --> 00:26:44,650 and that is are we talking about a 570 00:26:51,210 --> 00:26:47,890 nuts-and-bolts phenomena ie flying 571 00:26:54,300 --> 00:26:51,220 saucers and vehicles in beings or are we 572 00:26:58,680 --> 00:26:54,310 talking about a consciousness phenomenon 573 00:27:02,220 --> 00:26:58,690 an interdimensional mind-control dream 574 00:27:05,040 --> 00:27:02,230 kind of phenomena or is it is it both 575 00:27:07,380 --> 00:27:05,050 what does your research tell you I think 576 00:27:10,170 --> 00:27:07,390 it's a combination of both I found that 577 00:27:15,150 --> 00:27:10,180 to be present particularly in some of 578 00:27:19,500 --> 00:27:15,160 the Maya stories that traveling back and 579 00:27:21,390 --> 00:27:19,510 forth between dimensions in fact 580 00:27:23,970 --> 00:27:21,400 sometimes I think when I was listening 581 00:27:25,950 --> 00:27:23,980 to some of the my elders that probably 582 00:27:28,110 --> 00:27:25,960 the Mayas were the first time travelers 583 00:27:30,270 --> 00:27:28,120 because they seemed to have that ability 584 00:27:34,230 --> 00:27:30,280 or at least that knowledge of how to 585 00:27:37,080 --> 00:27:34,240 travel back and forth but then you know 586 00:27:40,130 --> 00:27:37,090 you look at some of the rock also had 587 00:27:43,500 --> 00:27:40,140 that ability you know the Great Sioux 588 00:27:45,919 --> 00:27:43,510 medicine man and so you know I don't 589 00:27:48,169 --> 00:27:45,929 know if 590 00:27:52,009 --> 00:27:48,179 I think that that for the most of the 591 00:27:54,409 --> 00:27:52,019 people in my and that our stories are 592 00:27:56,210 --> 00:27:54,419 recorded my book they were the nuts and 593 00:27:58,580 --> 00:27:56,220 bolts kinds of things but I also find 594 00:28:01,700 --> 00:27:58,590 the what's most interesting about them 595 00:28:04,850 --> 00:28:01,710 is they weren't channeling somebody they 596 00:28:06,710 --> 00:28:04,860 weren't under hypnosis they were telling 597 00:28:08,629 --> 00:28:06,720 stories as they remembered them they 598 00:28:10,940 --> 00:28:08,639 were not you know under some kind of 599 00:28:11,779 --> 00:28:10,950 hypnotic spell and yeah that's 600 00:28:14,049 --> 00:28:11,789 fascinating 601 00:28:16,840 --> 00:28:14,059 let's let's touch on the potential 602 00:28:19,220 --> 00:28:16,850 agenda here which is of course 603 00:28:20,869 --> 00:28:19,230 speculative and a tricky topic do you an 604 00:28:23,509 --> 00:28:20,879 approach but I was listening the other 605 00:28:26,529 --> 00:28:23,519 day to a presentation by a UFO 606 00:28:29,149 --> 00:28:26,539 researcher Barbara lamb who's done 607 00:28:30,889 --> 00:28:29,159 regression therapy work with over a 608 00:28:35,690 --> 00:28:30,899 thousand people who claim to have been 609 00:28:37,669 --> 00:28:35,700 had contact with aliens and she like 610 00:28:41,239 --> 00:28:37,679 many others has the distinct impression 611 00:28:45,649 --> 00:28:41,249 that there's some kind of interbreeding 612 00:28:47,029 --> 00:28:45,659 a hybridization process going on here do 613 00:28:52,909 --> 00:28:47,039 you have any thoughts on that 614 00:28:56,739 --> 00:28:52,919 I had no stories of that among American 615 00:29:01,759 --> 00:28:56,749 Indians but I did encounter it in Mexico 616 00:29:05,060 --> 00:29:01,769 and in Guatemala of women who claims who 617 00:29:07,639 --> 00:29:05,070 have been abducted and to have borne 618 00:29:09,649 --> 00:29:07,649 hybrid children I had one young woman 619 00:29:12,889 --> 00:29:09,659 tell me the story that she had been in 620 00:29:16,070 --> 00:29:12,899 the plaza one evening with her boyfriend 621 00:29:19,519 --> 00:29:16,080 and her friends she was 16 at the time 622 00:29:24,619 --> 00:29:19,529 her boyfriend was 16 they were walking 623 00:29:27,430 --> 00:29:24,629 back home and from going walking back to 624 00:29:30,980 --> 00:29:27,440 their to their house and to her house 625 00:29:34,700 --> 00:29:30,990 and both of them were taken and state 626 00:29:36,710 --> 00:29:34,710 she told me how they struggled because 627 00:29:40,399 --> 00:29:36,720 they were trying to they were being 628 00:29:42,680 --> 00:29:40,409 pulled up into the sky and how they 629 00:29:46,759 --> 00:29:42,690 struggled and kicked and crawled and 630 00:29:49,909 --> 00:29:46,769 tried to get away and then the next day 631 00:29:52,879 --> 00:29:49,919 she realizes she's pregnant and she's 632 00:29:55,159 --> 00:29:52,889 never had sex so her boyfriend she and 633 00:29:56,869 --> 00:29:55,169 her boyfriend decide that it's a virgin 634 00:29:59,120 --> 00:29:56,879 birth just like the Virgin Mary they 635 00:30:01,580 --> 00:29:59,130 were very very strong 636 00:30:04,700 --> 00:30:01,590 devout Catholics that a must be a virgin 637 00:30:08,210 --> 00:30:04,710 birth and so he decides that he has to 638 00:30:10,730 --> 00:30:08,220 marry her because if he marries her then 639 00:30:15,350 --> 00:30:10,740 there will be no no one in the village 640 00:30:18,770 --> 00:30:15,360 she won't be criticized or isolated or 641 00:30:22,400 --> 00:30:18,780 shunned by other people and he will he 642 00:30:26,080 --> 00:30:22,410 will go ahead and marry her and take to 643 00:30:30,200 --> 00:30:26,090 protect her because he knows that that 644 00:30:32,510 --> 00:30:30,210 it's a virgin birth and a few weeks 645 00:30:34,210 --> 00:30:32,520 later as the ceremony is being planned 646 00:30:39,140 --> 00:30:34,220 and they're planning on getting married 647 00:30:41,600 --> 00:30:39,150 she's abducted again and when she wakes 648 00:30:43,730 --> 00:30:41,610 up the next day she's no longer pregnant 649 00:30:47,120 --> 00:30:43,740 of course those kind of accounts 650 00:30:51,620 --> 00:30:47,130 directly relate to so many accounts that 651 00:30:55,700 --> 00:30:51,630 other UFO researchers John Mack at 652 00:30:58,490 --> 00:30:55,710 Harvard at Hopkins just many many very 653 00:31:00,890 --> 00:30:58,500 credible UFO researchers have found the 654 00:31:03,800 --> 00:31:00,900 same thing so it's interesting that 655 00:31:06,980 --> 00:31:03,810 you've run across that as well well and 656 00:31:10,690 --> 00:31:06,990 I ran across more than one case I had a 657 00:31:13,490 --> 00:31:10,700 wonderful guide and who came across 658 00:31:15,050 --> 00:31:13,500 happened to he knew what I was doing and 659 00:31:18,050 --> 00:31:15,060 he was taking me to these different 660 00:31:20,570 --> 00:31:18,060 sites actually back when I was about 15 661 00:31:24,110 --> 00:31:20,580 years old a librarian handed me this 662 00:31:28,460 --> 00:31:24,120 book called the incidents of travel in 663 00:31:30,110 --> 00:31:28,470 the Yucatan it was by two explorers 19th 664 00:31:32,510 --> 00:31:30,120 century explorers for the name of 665 00:31:34,910 --> 00:31:32,520 Stevens and Catherwood and they had gone 666 00:31:40,310 --> 00:31:34,920 they had heard rumors of these great 667 00:31:42,620 --> 00:31:40,320 cities in the jungles of Mexico and 668 00:31:45,590 --> 00:31:42,630 Central America that had been built and 669 00:31:48,110 --> 00:31:45,600 they they went there in search of them 670 00:31:51,920 --> 00:31:48,120 and of course the book chronicles their 671 00:31:54,530 --> 00:31:51,930 their trip so I had promised myself when 672 00:31:55,640 --> 00:31:54,540 I when I was a teenager that one day I 673 00:31:59,870 --> 00:31:55,650 was going to follow in their footsteps 674 00:32:01,880 --> 00:31:59,880 and go to all these ancient cities well 675 00:32:05,330 --> 00:32:01,890 then the years pass course making a 676 00:32:09,470 --> 00:32:05,340 living and getting my degrees was to the 677 00:32:11,760 --> 00:32:09,480 forefront and my my dream of following 678 00:32:15,330 --> 00:32:11,770 Catherwood and Stevens through 679 00:32:17,850 --> 00:32:15,340 through the jungles took a backseat but 680 00:32:19,830 --> 00:32:17,860 today I grab the day I retired from MSU 681 00:32:22,470 --> 00:32:19,840 I was coming home and I saw a yard sale 682 00:32:25,020 --> 00:32:22,480 with a bunch of books stacked over in a 683 00:32:28,620 --> 00:32:25,030 up against the garage door and I can't 684 00:32:31,740 --> 00:32:28,630 pass that up so I stopped my card here I 685 00:32:33,780 --> 00:32:31,750 found this one of these old books like 686 00:32:36,600 --> 00:32:33,790 Stevens I thought you know this is 687 00:32:39,780 --> 00:32:36,610 something I have to do and I set off and 688 00:32:42,120 --> 00:32:39,790 I had read you know the works by von 689 00:32:43,680 --> 00:32:42,130 däniken and different people who talked 690 00:32:47,100 --> 00:32:43,690 about the ancient astronauts and 691 00:32:50,040 --> 00:32:47,110 everything in these cities and I had 692 00:32:52,380 --> 00:32:50,050 read the Popol Vuh and some of those 693 00:32:55,770 --> 00:32:52,390 things of the Maya so I was interested 694 00:32:58,610 --> 00:32:55,780 in following up not only on Stevens and 695 00:33:02,240 --> 00:32:58,620 Catherwood but also finding out 696 00:33:06,990 --> 00:33:02,250 firsthand the experiences of modern-day 697 00:33:07,380 --> 00:33:07,000 Maya with UFOs and and of course down 698 00:33:10,940 --> 00:33:07,390 there 699 00:33:13,650 --> 00:33:10,950 most of them call them the sky gods so 700 00:33:14,910 --> 00:33:13,660 that's what I set out to do and and of 701 00:33:18,900 --> 00:33:14,920 course along the way I had some 702 00:33:21,150 --> 00:33:18,910 wonderful people helping me and I was 703 00:33:23,220 --> 00:33:21,160 actually taken to this village where six 704 00:33:26,040 --> 00:33:23,230 women came forth to tell me their story 705 00:33:29,190 --> 00:33:26,050 for this young woman who was now you 706 00:33:30,390 --> 00:33:29,200 know in her 20s told me the story of 707 00:33:34,980 --> 00:33:30,400 what had happened to her 708 00:33:38,070 --> 00:33:34,990 I was quite an interesting night 709 00:33:40,740 --> 00:33:38,080 it was interesting me too because the 710 00:33:44,130 --> 00:33:40,750 lot of sophisticated methods of 711 00:33:47,490 --> 00:33:44,140 explaining things like instead of 712 00:33:50,250 --> 00:33:47,500 talking about a UFO in terms they would 713 00:33:53,400 --> 00:33:50,260 talk about one well a 2,000 women talked 714 00:33:56,790 --> 00:33:53,410 about they describe as a scratch as a 715 00:34:01,620 --> 00:33:56,800 gasoline tank that came down from the 716 00:34:04,410 --> 00:34:01,630 sky and in fact there and I found it 717 00:34:07,169 --> 00:34:04,420 extremely interesting to to listen to 718 00:34:08,700 --> 00:34:07,179 the way they were describing these these 719 00:34:10,500 --> 00:34:08,710 craft because they didn't have 720 00:34:12,810 --> 00:34:10,510 television in their village they didn't 721 00:34:15,599 --> 00:34:12,820 have all the things they weren't exposed 722 00:34:17,399 --> 00:34:15,609 to the sci-fi movies and all the 723 00:34:19,290 --> 00:34:17,409 information that's out there you know I 724 00:34:22,349 --> 00:34:19,300 mean they lived in you know on a 725 00:34:23,670 --> 00:34:22,359 hillside and Guatemala you know away 726 00:34:25,830 --> 00:34:23,680 from all of that 727 00:34:28,050 --> 00:34:25,840 and so they described you know and yet 728 00:34:34,230 --> 00:34:28,060 when you read UFO literature you know 729 00:34:36,120 --> 00:34:34,240 about the pencil cigar-shaped class and 730 00:34:38,340 --> 00:34:36,130 here they are describing it as a 731 00:34:40,440 --> 00:34:38,350 gasoline tank because that's what 732 00:34:41,790 --> 00:34:40,450 they've seen in their in their 733 00:34:44,310 --> 00:34:41,800 environment so that was really 734 00:34:46,560 --> 00:34:44,320 interesting yeah that that is very 735 00:34:49,050 --> 00:34:46,570 interesting it's it speaks to all the 736 00:34:51,210 --> 00:34:49,060 kind of cultural flavoring that we 737 00:34:52,350 --> 00:34:51,220 imagine goes on in these accounts 738 00:34:54,540 --> 00:34:52,360 especially when we look at the older 739 00:34:56,750 --> 00:34:54,550 accounts you know already finally what I 740 00:35:00,090 --> 00:34:56,760 wanted to kind of talk about was 741 00:35:03,210 --> 00:35:00,100 spirituality again if we unpack these 742 00:35:05,910 --> 00:35:03,220 experiences with American Indians that 743 00:35:08,870 --> 00:35:05,920 you're talking about we assume going in 744 00:35:12,390 --> 00:35:08,880 that there's a different spiritual 745 00:35:13,980 --> 00:35:12,400 orientation I mean you're in your 746 00:35:16,410 --> 00:35:13,990 professional career at Montana State 747 00:35:18,300 --> 00:35:16,420 University you know you have to walk a 748 00:35:21,210 --> 00:35:18,310 fine line like we all do you know you 749 00:35:24,030 --> 00:35:21,220 can't walk around and say oh of course I 750 00:35:26,070 --> 00:35:24,040 believe in spirit communication and 751 00:35:28,170 --> 00:35:26,080 talking with the dead in fact everyone I 752 00:35:30,570 --> 00:35:28,180 know just this moves that that's that's 753 00:35:33,410 --> 00:35:30,580 a truth right I mean we have this kind 754 00:35:35,690 --> 00:35:33,420 of cultural barrier in the West 755 00:35:38,730 --> 00:35:35,700 regardless of any kind of religious 756 00:35:42,050 --> 00:35:38,740 background we may have in terms of 757 00:35:44,520 --> 00:35:42,060 talking about and experiencing 758 00:35:46,140 --> 00:35:44,530 spirituality and I think we assume 759 00:35:48,530 --> 00:35:46,150 whether this is true or not and you can 760 00:35:51,330 --> 00:35:48,540 maybe tell me if it is but that in 761 00:35:55,140 --> 00:35:51,340 American Indian cultures there's a 762 00:35:58,980 --> 00:35:55,150 different set of Givens a different set 763 00:35:59,970 --> 00:35:58,990 of a different orientation regarding the 764 00:36:02,940 --> 00:35:59,980 spirit world 765 00:36:04,970 --> 00:36:02,950 what would you first off kind of say 766 00:36:07,200 --> 00:36:04,980 about that is that true is that a 767 00:36:09,810 --> 00:36:07,210 misconception and how might that play 768 00:36:13,590 --> 00:36:09,820 into these these accounts and and 769 00:36:16,110 --> 00:36:13,600 someone's receptivity to this kind of 770 00:36:18,960 --> 00:36:16,120 experience that they might have well I 771 00:36:22,050 --> 00:36:18,970 think again you have two separate tribes 772 00:36:24,740 --> 00:36:22,060 there sometimes that is forbidden to 773 00:36:27,690 --> 00:36:24,750 even speak the name of a dead person 774 00:36:31,590 --> 00:36:27,700 where in other times they believe that 775 00:36:33,720 --> 00:36:31,600 that when someone dies they stay with 776 00:36:36,150 --> 00:36:33,730 them for a year there's there it remains 777 00:36:37,530 --> 00:36:36,160 with them for a year and then after a 778 00:36:40,290 --> 00:36:37,540 year they hold a ceremony 779 00:36:43,800 --> 00:36:40,300 three separate they have ceremonies 780 00:36:44,730 --> 00:36:43,810 where they can speak with with those who 781 00:36:47,360 --> 00:36:44,740 have passed on 782 00:36:50,310 --> 00:36:47,370 they have ceremonies where they can can 783 00:36:51,900 --> 00:36:50,320 speak with the ancients or where the 784 00:36:54,480 --> 00:36:51,910 ancients come to them and give them 785 00:36:56,790 --> 00:36:54,490 knowledge and answer their prayers are 786 00:37:00,380 --> 00:36:56,800 there questions so it depends on the 787 00:37:03,600 --> 00:37:00,390 tribal group and it varies greatly 788 00:37:07,740 --> 00:37:03,610 throughout the United States and Alaska 789 00:37:10,140 --> 00:37:07,750 so it's difficult for me to say that is 790 00:37:13,050 --> 00:37:10,150 a general rule that it has a spiritual 791 00:37:15,510 --> 00:37:13,060 connection but definitely it does with 792 00:37:18,420 --> 00:37:15,520 some of the tribes there's no question 793 00:37:20,160 --> 00:37:18,430 about it that at the ancestors see some 794 00:37:23,670 --> 00:37:20,170 of the tribes actually talking the Maya 795 00:37:25,800 --> 00:37:23,680 do this do they talk about the trip 796 00:37:28,560 --> 00:37:25,810 across the Milky Way that when you die 797 00:37:30,180 --> 00:37:28,570 you cross the passes the Milky Way see 798 00:37:32,790 --> 00:37:30,190 that's the Maya believe they talk about 799 00:37:36,180 --> 00:37:32,800 going to Chihuahua and so you know 800 00:37:40,260 --> 00:37:36,190 you've got a common theme there that the 801 00:37:44,190 --> 00:37:40,270 cosmos placed so much part in after life 802 00:37:46,290 --> 00:37:44,200 and death and the ability of the dead or 803 00:37:47,970 --> 00:37:46,300 the deceased that they never really die 804 00:37:50,040 --> 00:37:47,980 that they just move on into another 805 00:37:52,770 --> 00:37:50,050 dimension and that they can come back 806 00:37:55,170 --> 00:37:52,780 and communicate with the living mm-hmm 807 00:37:56,970 --> 00:37:55,180 so just like that no matter what kind of 808 00:37:58,860 --> 00:37:56,980 subtle differences you might have in 809 00:38:00,930 --> 00:37:58,870 that world view I think that world view 810 00:38:03,660 --> 00:38:00,940 puts you in a completely different place 811 00:38:06,090 --> 00:38:03,670 in terms of dealing dealing with the UFO 812 00:38:08,670 --> 00:38:06,100 phenomena I have to tell you because you 813 00:38:10,650 --> 00:38:08,680 know you know native people on a whole 814 00:38:13,530 --> 00:38:10,660 are accepting of it 815 00:38:16,770 --> 00:38:13,540 they aren't skeptical of it so if you 816 00:38:20,610 --> 00:38:16,780 approach it from a perspective that it 817 00:38:24,180 --> 00:38:20,620 is a part of the universe and then it's 818 00:38:26,760 --> 00:38:24,190 nothing to fear then that's one view but 819 00:38:28,650 --> 00:38:26,770 to be skeptical of it and not believe 820 00:38:30,870 --> 00:38:28,660 what you're seeing or deny that it 821 00:38:35,070 --> 00:38:30,880 occurs it's a totally different world 822 00:38:38,310 --> 00:38:35,080 view right well I think if you have that 823 00:38:40,170 --> 00:38:38,320 world view that is so prevalent in our 824 00:38:41,730 --> 00:38:40,180 society in our culture and when you 825 00:38:44,340 --> 00:38:41,740 really deconstruct it which is kind of 826 00:38:47,330 --> 00:38:44,350 what this show is about really is not so 827 00:38:49,020 --> 00:38:47,340 much just deconstructing it from a UFO 828 00:38:50,670 --> 00:38:49,030 perspective but from a straight 829 00:38:51,250 --> 00:38:50,680 scientific perspective you know you look 830 00:38:58,060 --> 00:38:51,260 at 831 00:39:00,220 --> 00:38:58,070 society is so controlled by the 832 00:39:03,730 --> 00:39:00,230 scientific evidence of everything where 833 00:39:05,830 --> 00:39:03,740 if the Native community is not I do 834 00:39:08,950 --> 00:39:05,840 think so but I even think that that's 835 00:39:11,230 --> 00:39:08,960 somewhat of a misdirect because I think 836 00:39:13,390 --> 00:39:11,240 that the best scientific evidence that 837 00:39:14,890 --> 00:39:13,400 we have for the last hundred years all 838 00:39:16,180 --> 00:39:14,900 the scientific evidence in quantum 839 00:39:16,900 --> 00:39:16,190 physics has pointed us in the other 840 00:39:19,540 --> 00:39:16,910 direction right 841 00:39:22,540 --> 00:39:19,550 we've just chose to ignore it because 842 00:39:25,240 --> 00:39:22,550 all right right the materialism that is 843 00:39:27,880 --> 00:39:25,250 so much a part of you know capitalism 844 00:39:29,380 --> 00:39:27,890 and and the the thing that we're in that 845 00:39:31,540 --> 00:39:29,390 we live in that we love and our 846 00:39:33,190 --> 00:39:31,550 computers and all that pulls us the 847 00:39:35,230 --> 00:39:33,200 other way so we can't possibly imagine 848 00:39:38,470 --> 00:39:35,240 what it would mean to give all that up 849 00:39:40,260 --> 00:39:38,480 so we hold on to what's familiar and 850 00:39:43,450 --> 00:39:40,270 again it's it has all sorts of other 851 00:39:45,070 --> 00:39:43,460 implications as well and so I guess we 852 00:39:46,630 --> 00:39:45,080 are coming to that same kind of point 853 00:39:48,610 --> 00:39:46,640 may be that there is some reality to 854 00:39:50,440 --> 00:39:48,620 that when people have an orientation 855 00:39:52,000 --> 00:39:50,450 where they're free from that baggage 856 00:39:53,560 --> 00:39:52,010 they can kind of look at this and go 857 00:39:55,600 --> 00:39:53,570 well I I don't know but yeah that 858 00:39:58,030 --> 00:39:55,610 happened and you know it does relate to 859 00:40:01,050 --> 00:39:58,040 these other stories I've heard in my 860 00:40:03,730 --> 00:40:01,060 past so it must be true it isn't hard to 861 00:40:06,610 --> 00:40:03,740 accept does that make it easier for them 862 00:40:10,030 --> 00:40:06,620 to incorporate it into their life 863 00:40:13,240 --> 00:40:10,040 without getting totally whacked out and 864 00:40:16,600 --> 00:40:13,250 thinking absolutely believe that's true 865 00:40:20,290 --> 00:40:16,610 you know because I've found very little 866 00:40:23,440 --> 00:40:20,300 evidence of trauma among the people that 867 00:40:26,290 --> 00:40:23,450 I interviewed maybe well certainly less 868 00:40:27,730 --> 00:40:26,300 than ten percent maybe less than five 869 00:40:30,640 --> 00:40:27,740 percent and you know I never sat down 870 00:40:33,520 --> 00:40:30,650 and really took each story and put it in 871 00:40:36,400 --> 00:40:33,530 a category but I think there was one 872 00:40:38,650 --> 00:40:36,410 instance I pointed out in the book where 873 00:40:40,330 --> 00:40:38,660 the young woman her cousin had had an 874 00:40:44,920 --> 00:40:40,340 encounter and she had witnessed it and 875 00:40:47,200 --> 00:40:44,930 and therefore she just was really had 876 00:40:49,990 --> 00:40:47,210 had difficulty dealing with it and in 877 00:40:52,120 --> 00:40:50,000 fact had dropped out of school because 878 00:40:55,030 --> 00:40:52,130 she figured with there was something out 879 00:40:57,880 --> 00:40:55,040 there that had that much power over you 880 00:41:00,190 --> 00:40:57,890 and to do with you at will then what was 881 00:41:02,650 --> 00:41:00,200 the purpose of even trying to do 882 00:41:03,690 --> 00:41:02,660 anything and and of course over time she 883 00:41:05,940 --> 00:41:03,700 came to 884 00:41:09,180 --> 00:41:05,950 to recognize that that that was a 885 00:41:11,930 --> 00:41:09,190 fruitless behavior but rarely did I 886 00:41:15,480 --> 00:41:11,940 encounter that well it's an absolutely 887 00:41:17,220 --> 00:41:15,490 fascinating work and I'm glad to you I'm 888 00:41:20,069 --> 00:41:17,230 glad to hear that there's maybe some 889 00:41:22,260 --> 00:41:20,079 more down the road oh yeah 890 00:41:25,890 --> 00:41:22,270 that's fantastic dr. Clark right now 891 00:41:28,109 --> 00:41:25,900 there's a look at that perhaps even 892 00:41:31,740 --> 00:41:28,119 translating it into Japanese of all 893 00:41:35,040 --> 00:41:31,750 things wow that's great that's fast yeah 894 00:41:36,569 --> 00:41:35,050 so Japanese and probably Spanish has got 895 00:41:38,010 --> 00:41:36,579 to be on the table too right with all 896 00:41:39,990 --> 00:41:38,020 your I don't know I haven't heard 897 00:41:42,450 --> 00:41:40,000 anything but I certainly have been in 898 00:41:46,920 --> 00:41:42,460 contact with some people who are 899 00:41:49,700 --> 00:41:46,930 interested in publishing it in Japan and 900 00:41:52,650 --> 00:41:49,710 I've just referred them to my editor and 901 00:41:56,130 --> 00:41:52,660 I think you know him Patrick the 902 00:41:57,569 --> 00:41:56,140 anomalous anomalous Press right nice 903 00:41:59,190 --> 00:41:57,579 folks over there great folks and they 904 00:42:02,069 --> 00:41:59,200 have some great books yeah well again 905 00:42:05,839 --> 00:42:02,079 the book is encounters with star people 906 00:42:08,910 --> 00:42:05,849 untold story of American Indians a 907 00:42:10,829 --> 00:42:08,920 fascinating book dr. Clark it's been 908 00:42:13,109 --> 00:42:10,839 great having you on thanks so much for 909 00:42:15,930 --> 00:42:13,119 joining me in on skeptic oh my pleasure 910 00:42:17,640 --> 00:42:15,940 I enjoy talking to you thanks again to 911 00:42:20,099 --> 00:42:17,650 dr. Clark for joining me today on 912 00:42:22,260 --> 00:42:20,109 skeptic Oh couple of questions on mighty 913 00:42:24,240 --> 00:42:22,270 up for a discussion following this 914 00:42:25,980 --> 00:42:24,250 interview the first would have to do 915 00:42:27,690 --> 00:42:25,990 with the question that's been on my mind 916 00:42:30,120 --> 00:42:27,700 for a while since I've been thinking 917 00:42:33,930 --> 00:42:30,130 about this topic and that is what is the 918 00:42:36,770 --> 00:42:33,940 connection between spirituality and the 919 00:42:40,079 --> 00:42:36,780 spirit world and alien contact 920 00:42:42,390 --> 00:42:40,089 experience we approach that area a 921 00:42:43,950 --> 00:42:42,400 couple times in this discussion I think 922 00:42:46,800 --> 00:42:43,960 it's something that is for the most part 923 00:42:49,260 --> 00:42:46,810 lacking within the UFO community and 924 00:42:52,680 --> 00:42:49,270 certainly within the spiritual community 925 00:42:55,050 --> 00:42:52,690 I think it's a real fertile area to look 926 00:42:57,750 --> 00:42:55,060 at in questions so that would be topic 927 00:43:00,660 --> 00:42:57,760 number one and that kind of leads into 928 00:43:04,200 --> 00:43:00,670 the second topic and that is why is 929 00:43:06,660 --> 00:43:04,210 there this compartmentalization between 930 00:43:09,059 --> 00:43:06,670 these disciplines that are on the fringe 931 00:43:11,069 --> 00:43:09,069 if you will they would naturally seem to 932 00:43:13,859 --> 00:43:11,079 be more aligned and yet they're not we 933 00:43:16,170 --> 00:43:13,869 have compartmentalization within UFO 934 00:43:17,370 --> 00:43:16,180 communities that don't want to consider 935 00:43:19,590 --> 00:43:17,380 alien conte 936 00:43:21,360 --> 00:43:19,600 don't want to sit consider consciousness 937 00:43:23,990 --> 00:43:21,370 certainly don't want to consider 938 00:43:25,880 --> 00:43:24,000 anything spiritual we have 939 00:43:27,930 --> 00:43:25,890 compartmentalization within the 940 00:43:29,490 --> 00:43:27,940 parapsychology community which I've 941 00:43:31,820 --> 00:43:29,500 talked about before is just stunning 942 00:43:33,650 --> 00:43:31,830 that people who consider themselves 943 00:43:36,030 --> 00:43:33,660 parapsychologists or interested in 944 00:43:38,760 --> 00:43:36,040 parapsychology have no interest in 945 00:43:41,160 --> 00:43:38,770 near-death experience or spiritually 946 00:43:43,260 --> 00:43:41,170 transformative experiences that seems 947 00:43:46,140 --> 00:43:43,270 totally bizarre and yet it exists and 948 00:43:48,120 --> 00:43:46,150 it's interesting parallel with the UFO 949 00:43:50,760 --> 00:43:48,130 community where people want to consider 950 00:43:53,040 --> 00:43:50,770 saucers and lights in the sky but as 951 00:43:55,170 --> 00:43:53,050 soon as someone talks about contact let 952 00:43:57,930 --> 00:43:55,180 alone some kind of spiritually 953 00:44:00,360 --> 00:43:57,940 transformative UFO experience they're 954 00:44:02,180 --> 00:44:00,370 out the door so the question is what's 955 00:44:05,100 --> 00:44:02,190 going on there why do we 956 00:44:07,470 --> 00:44:05,110 compartmentalize these different areas 957 00:44:10,620 --> 00:44:07,480 that if you're accepting it all of them 958 00:44:12,330 --> 00:44:10,630 seem to have obvious connections so 959 00:44:14,850 --> 00:44:12,340 those are a couple of questions to chew 960 00:44:17,370 --> 00:44:14,860 on think about and of course if you are 961 00:44:19,950 --> 00:44:17,380 willing share your thoughts with the 962 00:44:23,870 --> 00:44:19,960 rest of us the place to do that is at 963 00:44:25,110 --> 00:44:23,880 the skeptic Oh website at ske PTI 964 00:44:27,060 --> 00:44:25,120 koat.com 965 00:44:29,190 --> 00:44:27,070 from there you can jump on over to our 966 00:44:31,830 --> 00:44:29,200 forum leave a comment on the comment 967 00:44:34,140 --> 00:44:31,840 section of the website or drop an e-mail 968 00:44:36,120 --> 00:44:34,150 or a facebook note to me well that's 969 00:44:38,130 --> 00:44:36,130 gonna do it for today I have a number of 970 00:44:40,320 --> 00:44:38,140 interesting shows coming up and I 971 00:44:43,380 --> 00:44:40,330 certainly hope you'll stay with me for